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Tuesday July 23, 1996

From: Luke Derossi <lderossi@COMCAT.COM>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 02:47:35 -0400
Subject: Re: Flash

Peter Merel wrote:

> >The memory model of Magic Cap was designed to take advantage of
> >SRAM's capabilities, which suffer none of the above limitations.
> >According to the specification of the PC Card slot, Magic Cap
> >communicators are physically able to support flash technology.  However
> >as you can see the limitations imposed by flash technology makes it less
> >attractive.  Especially when a 2MB SRAM card can support even heavy
> >usage, with Presto! products too.
>
> Hmm, so the hardware will do it. I think, then, if someone were to write
> a driver for flash, a popular configuration would have SRAM in one slot
> and flash in the other - web caches alone would well justify this.

  That's a very cool idea!  The only problem, and probable reason why
we've not seen this type of solution, is the requirement to have both an
SRAM card and a Flash card, so demand would be extremely low.  I'd
venture to guess that only a hacker-user with excellent knowledge of MC
memory architecture and flash PC card specs/drivers AND a SRAM/Flash
card set would ever be inclined to write such a driver.  And I have a
feeling that for effective real-world usage, it would be good for cold
storage only; packed up packages, system backups, etc.  Or perhaps
specific capabilities just for archiving static documents, like a long
term web cache.  Again though, I'd imagine demand for these is too small
to make it a hot item; especially factoring in the probable difficulty
of the task.


Regards,

Luke Derossi
 for
  General Magic, Inc.

From: Jim Bailey <jdb@TIAC.NET>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 04:29:02 -0400
Subject: Re: ML-2000 for Internet Use - ideas and questions

>Date:    Sun, 21 Jul 1996 15:46:27 +0000
>From:    Wayne Sanderson 
>Subject: Re: ML2000 for Inter
>
>FALSE- The communicators can support HR, but GM did not bundle a
>proprietary HR app with the OS a la Newton,  instead leaving it open
>for 3rd party developers to provide a choice for the individual owner-
>there are several available.
>

The Newton handwriting design is as open as the one in Magic Cap.  The
Newton has a variety of "write in the box" type of handwriting recognizers
just like the Magic Link.  There is Grafitti, Gesture Mosaic, and
Freestyle.  Unfortunately for these developers, the Newton 2.0 built-in
handwriting recognizers (there are 2, one for printed and the other for
connected letters and cursive) are so good and so much better integrated
that there is less demand for third-party recognizers than on a Magic Cap.

The write in the box HWR works in all Newton applications that support text
entry via a keyboard (which is all apps that support text).  The built-in
recognizers are much easier to use though, just write where you want the
text to show up.

Please check your facts before posting.

>If there were a Magic Cap communicator for sale today that had
>undergone all of the revamping and augmentation that the Newton has
>undergone since it's introduction, the Newton would be in big trouble
>and all of the wait and sees out there on the fence would be buying it-
>and maybe they would have been using PersonaLink.

Then why isn't anyone revamping and augmenting devices for Magic Cap?  The
Newton is a live and growing product.  That is what will ultimately make
the Newton more successful than its competition.  If the Newton had 64 MB
of storage and a 200 MHZ PPC processor that ran on 2 AAA batteries for 6
months with a color LCD it would smoke the competition.

Wishing for something to be true typically isn't particularly productive.
Someone has to do the hard work of making engineering tradeoffs and then
doing the real engineering to create better products.  Usually that is
dictated by the realities of the market and by what is possible for the
money that the costumer is willing to spend for the product.


Jim Bailey                  Fetch Software, Inc.
Internet: jdb@tiac.net

From: Peter Merel <pete@ZIP.COM.AU>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 19:11:55 +1000
Subject: Re: Flash

Luke Derossi writes,

>That's a very cool idea!  The only problem, and probable reason why
>we've not seen this type of solution, is the requirement to have both an
>SRAM card and a Flash card, so demand would be extremely low.

Actually, going by Dean Yu's excellent explanation of the Magic Cap
memory model at

http://www.genmagic.com/Develop/MagicCap/Docs/InDepth/Memory/index.html

I can see no reason why you'd need to have an SRAM too. MC's memory model
should cater very well to flash, on account of it pages objects in to
transient memory before it lets your write them, and then garbage-collects
at leisure ... perhaps we should move this thread to the magicdev list,
but the point is just that, with only a little work, ML users would gain
a whole lot of benefit by way of web caching, and this would be of great
benefit to certain companies that sell MLs, MC and presto ...

>I'd venture to guess that only a hacker-user with excellent knowledge of MC
>memory architecture and flash PC card specs/drivers AND a SRAM/Flash
>card set would ever be inclined to write such a driver.

Of course I'm new to the subject, but I should say that if Dean Yu's article
represent the extent of public information about MC memory use, then you
can't expect the 3rd parties (hackers? Sheesh!) to develop this for you.
But perhaps there's some doco about writing pcmcia device drivers for the ML
in some of the print books on the subject?

>And I have a
>feeling that for effective real-world usage, it would be good for cold
>storage only; packed up packages, system backups, etc.

Think of it as disk and you'll have about the right idea on performance.
You do want to page objects in to transient memory before you write them ...
but since this is already the natural mode of the MC memory model, that's
probably not a worry.

>Or perhaps
>specific capabilities just for archiving static documents, like a long
>term web cache.  Again though, I'd imagine demand for these is too small
>to make it a hot item; especially factoring in the probable difficulty
>of the task.

Well, I really disagree with this; in terms of demand, try disabling the
cache on Netscape, connect to your provider at 14.4 kbps, and see how
much difference it makes. In terms of effort - GM is obviously in a
position to do a strategic partnership with a flash provider to get
support. Hell, if the hardware already supports flash, you could
probably get a major amount of what you'd need directly from the pcmcia
port manufacturer. I imagine that's Sony?

Heh ... if I'm this noisy now, imagine how much whining I'll do when I
actually own an ML :-)

--
| mailto:pete@zip.com.au | pgp DB 3A A3 D8 A7 6A BB 25 EF 2E F4 A4 8F 29 BB E2 |
| http://www.zip.com.au/~pete/ |         Give away what you don't need.        |

From: Nancy Knickerbocker-Penick <nkp@EDEN.COM>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 07:48:42 -0600
Subject: Re: ML-2000 for Internet Use - Misc. Replies

Nope, we never had plans for a terminal emulation package.  Sorry.

At 6:59 AM 7/22/96, Wayne Sanderson wrote:
>There was supposed to be a terminal emulation package in the works from
>Active Paper, but I have not heard about it for a while here. It was
>probably pushed to the back burner so that Presto!Mail 1.5 and P!Links
>could be finalized. Now that they are out hopefully the AP wizards will
>soon crank out a super emulation package? As with anything else that AP
>markets, it will be worth waiting for. As for customer demand, the line
>to buy starts here.

Nancy Knickerbocker-Penick
Software Quality Assurance Czar
Active Paper, Inc. http://www.apix.com work: nkp@apix.com home:
nkp@eden.com

From: Robert Kantor <r.kantor@POSTOFFICE.WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 12:53:16 +0000
Subject: Re: PrestoMail

I could trade Quickprint or Riverrun's terminal emulation program.  Please
advise.
At 06:02 AM 7/23/96 +0000, you wrote:
>Dear Magic,
>
>I also find myself with an extra copy of Presto!Mail....
>
>Not wishing to profit from it, I would be willing to trade it for something I
>could use.
>
>I have most stuff, but would like just about anything that comes on a card
>(i.e. Berlitz, pager, 2 meg) and could throw in some cash if needed.
>Whatever, make your best offer.  Still in shrink wrap, next day air.
>
>Please e-mail me direct and not to the list.  Thanks.
>
>Mark
>
>trustno_1@earthlink.net
>

From: Wayne Sanderson <A5023644635@ATTPLS.NET>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:06:21 +0000
Subject: Re: ML2000 for inter

>>FALSE- The communicators can support HR, but GM did not bundle a
>>proprietary HR app with the OS a la Newton,  instead leaving it open
>>for 3rd party developers to provide a choice for the individual
owner-
>>there are several available.
>>

>The Newton handwriting design is as open as the one in >Magic Cap.
The Newton has a variety of "write in the box" >type of handwriting
recognizers just like the Magic Link.  >There is Grafitti, Gesture
Mosaic, and Freestyle.  >Unfortunately for these developers, the Newton
2.0 >built-in handwriting recognizers (there are 2, one for >printed
and the other for connected letters and cursive) >are so good and so
much better integrated that there is less >demand for third-party
recognizers than on a Magic Cap.

>The write in the box HWR works in all Newton applications >that
support text entry via a keyboard (which is all apps >that support
text).  The built-in recognizers are much >easier to use though, just
write where you want the text to >show up.

.

The above statement was an almost direct quote of a posting made in
this forum by a GM exec, with a little liberty taken on my part by
changing "as it is in the Newton' to 'a la Newton'. The part of the
statement that you seem offended by is the most widely known fact-
Newton- MP up to MP130 -are all bundled with an in house handwriting
recognition app. No statement was made on my part on the quality
thereof- only that Newton has it and the ML PIC1000 don't.
Perhaps my use of the word 'proprietary' in describing the HR installed
by the 'proprietors' of Apple......

>Please check your facts before posting

I know where to find Newton discussion groups. I don't pop in there and
spam Newton affictionados. Perhaps I would not be so offended if you
took the time to read postings for INTENT and SUBJECT before YOU post.
Oh, and before you light your blowtorch this early in the morning, have
a couple of cups of coffee.

From: Wayne Sanderson <A5023644635@ATTPLS.NET>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:20:21 +0000
Subject: new emulator

There was a terminal emulator discussed on this list briefly as
upcoming, and currently in development- I thought Active Paper was
mentioned as the developer but I am mistaken. Does anyone know who and
when? Any of you list archivers out there have anything on this?

From: Keith Felkins <A5393644684@ATTPLS.NET>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:53:35 +0000
Subject: Re: finding ISP

Dear Magic,
>America Online remains a simple alternative that is
built into the Magic Link ROM. It may not be
the right solution for eveyone,<
Sorry, I couldn't see the Forrest for the Trees. But it doesn't seem
that AOL has participated in the discussion so far? Does anyone know
how many Links subscribe to AOL? Any opinions? What about the Coupon
Business, How does it relate to AOL?
Lemon Head

---
 NOTICE: This message originally included graphics and/or sounds which
can only be received by AT&T PersonaLink(sm) subscribers. You received
only the text portion(s) of the message.  Please contact the sender for
information that was deleted. To learn how to send and receive
graphics, voice and text messages via AT&T PersonaLink Services, call
1-800-936-LINK.

From: Greg Satz <satz@CISCO.COM>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 09:57:06 -0700
Subject: Re: Flash

Poster:       Luke Derossi 
>   That's a very cool idea!  The only problem, and probable reason why
> we've not seen this type of solution, is the requirement to have both an
> SRAM card and a Flash card, so demand would be extremely low.  I'd
> venture to guess that only a hacker-user with excellent knowledge of MC
> memory architecture and flash PC card specs/drivers AND a SRAM/Flash
> card set would ever be inclined to write such a driver.  And I have a
> feeling that for effective real-world usage, it would be good for cold
> storage only; packed up packages, system backups, etc.  Or perhaps
> specific capabilities just for archiving static documents, like a long
> term web cache.  Again though, I'd imagine demand for these is too small
> to make it a hot item; especially factoring in the probable difficulty
> of the task.

Hi Luke. With the advent of the 2000 and the envoy having dual slots, I
don't think the two slot limitation is an issue any longer. The NeoNet
communicator has some built-in flash, which I am sure you know, acts as a
long term storage facility like you describe. Allowing customers to use
cheaper pc flash cards available on the market to perform the same function
as the NeoNet would be a nice addition to the Magic Cap platform. I hate to
see the baby thrown out with the bathwater because it is a challenging
problem. :-)

I know GM is very busy these days. Maybe you could find a third party
developer who has the motivation to do it? At least say you will look into
it. :-)

Thanks,
Greg Satz

From: Paul Linhardt <plin@SONYSOFT.COM>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 10:02:33 -0700
Subject: Re: Flash

Luke Derossi writes,
>>The memory model of Magic Cap was designed to take advantage of
>>SRAM's capabilities, which suffer none of the above limitations.
>>According to the specification of the PC Card slot, Magic Cap
>>communicators are physically able to support flash technology.  However
>>as you can see the limitations imposed by flash technology makes it less
>>attractive.  Especially when a 2MB SRAM card can support even heavy
>>usage, with Presto! products too.
>
Peter Merel  writes:
>Hmm, so the hardware will do it. I think, then, if someone were to write
>a driver for flash, a popular configuration would have SRAM in one slot
>and flash in the other - web caches alone would well justify this.
>

FYI, Flash card support was on the original list of features to be
supported by Magic Cap way back when, but it was dropped just before MC 1.0
shipped in order to make up for some scheduling slips.  While not
publicized, MC devices do read Flash cards, but do not write them.

-Paul

---------------------
Sony New Technologies
http://www.sonysoft.com
1-800-739-7337

Attention!  New e-mail address: plin@sonysoft.com

From: "Kenny S. Irick" <kirick@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 10:22:27 -0700
Subject: Re: new emulator

This message contains mail encoded for MagicCap

--magicmail

Magic:

Wayne Sanderson writes:
> There was a terminal emulator discussed on this
> list briefly as
> upcoming, and currently in development- I thought
> Active Paper was
> mentioned as the developer but I am mistaken.
> Does anyone know who and
> when? Any of you list archivers out there have
> anything on this?

River Run Software has an emulator (called Magic Connection) that has been
available for quite some time.  They can be reached at (203)861-0090 and it
costs $119.00.

-------------------------
"I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

Kenny S. Irick
kirick@ix.netcom.com
Tue., July 23, 1996
10:59 a.m.
-------------------------
--magicmail
Content-Type: application/prestomail

begin 000 PrestoMail
M`0!CQSX/4&5R$QA8F5L`P`!=,3-KM`,LH<`P#\2=5!O2!I;B!D979E;&]P;65N="T@22!T:&]U9VAT(`H^
M($%C=&EV92!087!E2!3+B!)2`#)$!FP`!8@%UQSX017AT96YS
M:6]N16QE;65N=`(!=<(^"E)E<&QY4W1A;7`)``'$S:H*#+*'`,%?"A(2%@@`
M`$4`__]@`!8(```````````6!%`($@#$S:GC#+*'!X`%^`RQ````$A(!$@``
M``$2``,2=<<^$U!L871F;W)M1&5S8W)I<'1I;VX!`2`-,2PQ+C`L4T].62PR
M+&(!/@I297!L>5-T86UP"?T,D0'D@`R1`9L`#+#B``R0=T#]$A+]`Q)US:^P
9`0$@#3$L,2XP+%-/3EDL,BQB!1(2$@Q`$FER
`
end
25743
--magicmail--

From: Wayne Sanderson <A5023644635@ATTPLS.NET>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 17:42:07 +0000
Subject: Re: new emulator

Yes, I know about River Run's emulator and the gist of the postings
that I read was that the posters did also and were anticipating the
release of this other emulator as an alternative to Magic Connection.

From: John Jerney <jerney@VOLKSWARE.COM>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:02:21 -0400
Subject: The Shareware Emporium

SHAREWARE AUTHORS TAKE NOTE

*** The Shareware Emporium ***

There is a project underway to catalog and promote the latest in PDA
shareware and freeware. It's called "The Shareware Emporium", and you
can find the most recent edition in each issue of "mobilis: the mobile
computing lifestyle magazine". mobilis is a free magazine available
exclusively on the Web in its entirety.

I encourage you to take a look and, if you are a shareware or freeware
developer, to submit information about your product using the form
accessible from the Emporium. mobilis would like to encourage the
development of even more shareware for handheld computers, offering
the Emporium as a place where developers and users can come together.

As always, you can find mobilis at http://www.volksware.com/mobilis.

See you there.

-John

From: Wayne Sanderson <A5023644635@ATTPLS.NET>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 18:15:35 +0000
Subject: Re: Flash

>FYI, Flash card support was on the original list of features >to be
supported by Magic Cap way back when, but it was >dropped just before
MC 1.0 shipped in order to make up for >some scheduling slips.  While
not publicized, MC devices do >read Flash cards, but do not write them.

I had hoped this might be the case. This presents some interesting
possibilities. The Apex PC card modems are billed as having 'upgradable
firmware', and this sounds like flash rom to me. If a simple, low main
memory intensive driver were cooked up to allow the communicator to
read that flash rom on the card, a great deal of space could be saved
by loading the wireless modem link bundle and anything else that is
practical on the pc card. If this could be made to work, the PIC1000
could probably use the pc card modems and have some space left over in
main memory. I believe that Apex has some combo cards that feature
modem/ethernet and-or lan/flash. A Modem/Flash card with
Presto!Mail/!Links and WML in flash and some scheme to load a small
'working package' in main memory for the communicator to write changes
to instead of to the flash disk might be the ticket (don't ask me if it
will work- I'm just an idea man- I don't program). How about it you
gurus- is this possible or am I just 'wishing' too much again.....

From: John Jerney <jerney@VOLKSWARE.COM>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:05:51 -0400
Subject: The Ultimate PDA Review

Hello,

There is an ambitious new project on the Web to create the ultimate
PDA hardware and software review by collecting the opinion of
potentially thousands of users. The survey is called "The mobilist" and
is sponsored by the mobile computing magazine "mobilis".

I encourage you to take a look and submit your review of hardware and
software with which you are familiar. By averaging the review of
hundreds, "The mobilist" hopes to remove the biases of any individual
reviewer and offer the ultimate objective review.

You can find The mobilist in the current issue of mobilis, the free
monthly mobile computing magazine available in its entirety on the Web
(for over one year now!). mobilis is at
http://www.volksware.com/mobilis.

See you there.

-John

From: Luke Derossi <lderossi@COMCAT.COM>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:41:01 -0400
Subject: Re: new emulator

Wayne Sanderson wrote:
>
> Yes, I know about River Run's emulator and the gist of the postings
> that I read was that the posters did also and were anticipating the
> release of this other emulator as an alternative to Magic Connection.

  Wayne,

  Pouring through the list archives, the only other package with similar
capability was CujoTerm.  While it originated as a programming example,
it has and continues to mature into a very usable (albiet officially
unsupported (sorry, mandatory disclaimer ;)) product.  There were some
posts about its expanding feature-set; could these have been the source
of a Magic Connection alternative to these posters?


Regards,

Luke Derossi
 for
  General Magic, Inc.

From: "Rishi R. Oswal" <Yipadedoda@AOL.COM>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:39:03 -0400
Subject: Re: Newton

[This message may have contained graphics created by a Magic Cap device on
America Online.]

(Jim Bailey) writes:
> Then why isn't anyone revamping and augmenting
> devices for Magic Cap?  The
> Newton is a live and growing product.  That is
> what will ultimately make
> the Newton more successful than its competition.
> If the Newton had 64 MB
> of storage and a 200 MHZ PPC processor that ran
> on 2 AAA batteries for 6
> months with a color LCD it would smoke the
> competition.
> Wishing for something to be true typically isn't
> particularly productive.
> Someone has to do the hard work of making
> engineering tradeoffs and then
> doing the real engineering to create better
> products.  Usually that is
> dictated by the realities of the market and by
> what is possible for the
> money that the costumer is willing to spend for
> the product.


Carefull what you say. Magic Cap is +very+ alive and growing. The fact that
General Magic hasn't announced anything does not mean they are not doing
anything. It is General Magic's style to surprise people by making a bunch of
announcements at one time. I am almost certain that Magic Cap 2.0 will be
here this year. Rumors have it that Mitsubisei is coming out with a must have
Magic Cap based device.

In regards to the person wondering whether or not to purchase Magic Xchange,
I'd recommend holding off. I have been told that the final release of Magic
cap for windows will support direct sychronization to Magic Cap devices and
will probably only cost $49.99.

Rishi Oswal

From: Greg Handley <ratman@LANMINDS.COM>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 12:10:54 -0800
Subject: PIC-2000 for sale

BRAND NEW PIC-2000 WITH ORIGINAL PACKING,MANUALS AND ACCESSORIES INCLUDING
MAGIC XCHANGE AND  PAID SHIPPING.  $400.00.

Please send replies to: ratman@lanminds.com

From: "Joel Apisdorf (CTR)" <apisdorf@MCI.NET>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 15:59:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Newton

>In regards to the person wondering whether or not to purchase Magic Xchange,
>I'd recommend holding off. I have been told that the final release of Magic
>cap for windows will support direct sychronization to Magic Cap devices and
>will probably only cost $49.99.

yeah, but what about that impossible-to-obtain cable?
do you think it's going to magically appear at my local CompUSA for $5 ???

From: Wayne Sanderson <A5023644635@ATTPLS.NET>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 20:55:07 +0000
Subject: Re: Newton

>yeah, but what about that >impossible-to-obtain (Magic >Bus to
db-9)cable? do you >think it's going to magically >appear at my local
CompUSA >for $5 ???

I think Intellilink sells the cable separately. If they do not anymore,
the original Magic XChange goes for about $35.US from discounters like
PCZone. The last time I saw someone mention getting the cable
separately the price they quoted was $35.00 anyway for just the cable
from Intellilink.

From: Joe Solem <JoeSolem@AOL.COM>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 17:56:06 -0400
Subject: Re: finding ISP

Dear Magic Cappers:

Paul Linhardt wrote:

>For those a little overwhelmed by all the ISP choices, don't forget that
>America Online remains a viable alternative to PersonaLink.  It may not be
>the right solution for eveyone, but it is a simple alternative that is
>built into the Magic Link ROM.

Yes, that's true, unless you happen to live in an area of the world
without a local AOL access number which supports Magic Cap. This now
includes the state of Hawaii. You might want to check with AOL and ask if
they plan on abandoning the SprintNet access number in your hometown
before you sign up. AOLNet  (or GlobalNet) access numbers will not work
with Magic Links.

Joe

From: Sprattling@AOL.COM
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 17:52:31 -0400
Subject: Untitled

[This message may have contained graphics created by a Magic Cap device on
America Online.]

subject: AOL News

Dear MAGICCAP List,

Although email and stock quote services provided by AOL on this PIC-2000 work
just fine, the news headline service doesn't work for love or money.  Tap the
newspaper in the AOL building, set the number of stories requested, tap 'Get
Latest'; the PIC connects, the progess panel progresses,but the news page
remains empty.

I called AOL tech services.  The fellow there was as helpful as he could be,
but this wound up being reported as a new phenomenon.  Any of you have a
similar problem?

TIA,

Rod            From the desk of Roderick Sprattling...

From: Leo A DAngelo <lad@WORLD.STD.COM>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 18:09:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Untitled

Rod,

Just so you don't feel alone I too have the same
problem. I gave up on AOL a while ago. I now use
Presto prducts.

-LeoD
>
> [This message may have contained graphics created by a Magic Cap device on
> America Online.]
>
> subject: AOL News
>
> Dear MAGICCAP List,
>
> Although email and stock quote services provided by AOL on this PIC-2000 work
> just fine, the news headline service doesn't work for love or money.  Tap the
> newspaper in the AOL building, set the number of stories requested, tap 'Get
> Latest'; the PIC connects, the progess panel progresses,but the news page
> remains empty.
>
> I called AOL tech services.  The fellow there was as helpful as he could be,
> but this wound up being reported as a new phenomenon.  Any of you have a
> similar problem?
>
> TIA,
>
> Rod            From the desk of Roderick Sprattling...
>

From: Greg Satz <satz@CISCO.COM>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 15:24:48 -0700
Subject: Re: Newton

Poster:       Wayne Sanderson 
> I think Intellilink sells the cable separately. If they do not anymore,
> the original Magic XChange goes for about $35.US from discounters like
> PCZone. The last time I saw someone mention getting the cable
> separately the price they quoted was $35.00 anyway for just the cable
> from Intellilink.

I believe Intuit, the company that makes Quicken and Quicken Connect for
Magic Cap, will sell you Magic Bus serial cables as well.

Greg Satz

From: "F. Schurtz" <fas@GATE.NET>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 19:02:47 -0400
Subject: Re: Newton

Greg Satz wrote:
> I believe Intuit, the company that makes Quicken and Quicken Connect for
> Magic Cap, will sell you Magic Bus serial cables as well.


They do.  I just got one for $19.95

Sandy

From: Wayne Sanderson <A5023644635@ATTPLS.NET>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 23:41:37 +0000
Subject: Untitled

Back when AOL was as reliable as it ever was (for me) I could never get
more than 10 news stories from AOL, and towards the end (going on 60
days ago) there were weeks when the same single crummy story was all
there was, and that not even a headline. )I remember a story about a
world conference on hunger at the vatican that was all I got all 5
business days the last week before I dumped my subscription.)

From: agneslee <agneslee@NCB.GOV.SG>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:53:28 +0800
Subject: unsubscribe

Please remove me from this dist. list. thanx.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Agnes Lee                       email : agneslee@ncb.gov.sg
New Media & Internet Cluster
National Computer Board         voice : (+65) 772-0454
71, Science Park Drive,         fax   : (+65) 777-0891
Singapore 118253                http://www.ncb.gov.sg/agneslee/

From: Keith Adler <kadler@GATE.NET>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 22:59:46 -0400
Subject: Envoys for Sale

 I have 4 Envoys available for $499 each, all have been upgraded to 1.5
 For more information please contact me @800-378-3767.

 Thanks,

 Keith Adler, Vern's Electronics

From: Scott Doniger <A5603644614@ATTPLS.NET>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 03:48:57 +0000
Subject: presto beta

Dear Magic and Luke,
I was told that if you were a certified beta tester for Active Paper/GM
you would receive the completed product when done...  Is this true?   I
am using PRESTOB3
and having problems with mail...

Thx
scott
--------------------------
            From the desk of Scott Doniger...

From: Scott Doniger <A5603644614@ATTPLS.NET>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 03:50:22 +0000
Subject: BYE PLS

Dear Magic,
Once PLini goes bye bye,   what is the proper way to get it out of ram
on a 2000?  How much does it save and is worth it?

The sony patch seems silly....   Unless there is a better way...

Thx

--------------------------
            From the desk of Scott Doniger...

From: Scott Doniger <A5603644614@ATTPLS.NET>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 03:49:33 +0000
Subject: SAVE MUL

Dear MUL-AOL and two others,
Sorry to send redundant messages, but I am not sure where everyone is
now....


With the demise of PLS,  I would like to get everyones new addresses...
 Lets keep MUL alive!
Scott Doniger

Using
jamsys@usa.net

(still directs my mail to pls, since I havent found a provider)

Thx!!!

--------------------------
            From the desk of Scott Doniger...

From: Scott Doniger <A5603644614@ATTPLS.NET>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 04:01:40 +0000
Subject: Coupon

Dear Magic,
Anyone ever receive the $150.00 coupon from Sony???


--------------------------
            From the desk of Scott Doniger...

From: Johnny Culver <A5133644645@ATTPLS.NET>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 05:04:19 +0000
Subject: Coupon

Dear Magic,
haste makes waste, att is not going to let us down.

Cool yer jets...

---
 NOTICE: This message originally included graphics and/or sounds which
can only be received by AT&T PersonaLink(sm) subscribers. You received
only the text portion(s) of the message.  Please contact the sender for
information that was deleted. To learn how to send and receive
graphics, voice and text messages via AT&T PersonaLink Services, call
1-800-936-LINK.

From: Mgmatrix@AOL.COM
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 01:24:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Coupon

[This message may have contained graphics created by a Magic Cap device on
America Online.]

Dear Magic,
Sony's support center told me that the $150 coupons were going out closer to
Aug30..

From: Mike Lombrozo <lombroma@MAIL.FIA.NET>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 22:16:29 -0700
Subject: Re: ML-2000 for Internet Use - ideas and questions

I thought Java was supposed to be a small OS for small programmable remote
controls.  Maybe the development version requires 6MB, but my understanding
is the runtime files are real small.  Can anyone confirm this or am I all
wet?

Mike

----------
From:   J. Eric Townsend[SMTP:jet@ABULAFIA.GENMAGIC.COM]
Sent:   Monday, July 22, 1996 12:24 AM
To:     Multiple recipients of list MAGICCAP
Subject:        Re: ML-2000 for Internet Use - ideas and questions

"satz" == Greg Satz  writes:

satz> I think a Java VM would be a significant challenge due to
satz> resource limitations.

A friend of mine (who has one of the top-selling Java books :-) claims
that the basic set of libraries/code you need to be "really Java"
takes up about 6MB for 680x0 machines.  If we shrank the size of the
libraries (ditch the file IO, for example), it would be smaller, but
I'm guessing it'd have to be in the 2MB range to be worth it.

Remember that ROM space costs money in more ways than the chips
themselves -- PC board real estate and support hardware.  Pretty soon
you're looking at a device that costs *way* more than any other
persona communicator.

satz> The problem with all these marvelous upgrades from the portable
satz> computer world is cost. Would you be willing to pay $2000+ for a
satz> communicator? For this price you can get a nice portable
satz> computer with quite a number of these features.

exactly my point.  At some price-point, people will go out and buy a
486/pentium subnotebook instead of a Magic Cap device.  Keeping the
cost down means not having some features that those subnotebooks have
-- big gobs of memory, hard drives, that sort of thing.

satz> Telescript is being unbundled from the future Magic Cap
satz> software. This lets the communicator manufacturer determine
satz> whether to include Telescript in their device or not.

With our new Tabriz product, one can access Telescript engines via the
WWW.
--
J. Eric Townsend jet@genmagic.com  USA 408.774.4252 (play:
jet@well.sf.ca.us)
        URL bandwagon of hipitude

** wanted: Art of Noise - "Into Battle", original, in good condition **




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!\ `'
`
end

From: Greg Satz <satz@CISCO.COM>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 22:44:32 -0700
Subject: Re: ML-2000 for Internet Use - ideas and questions

Poster:       Mike Lombrozo 
> I thought Java was supposed to be a small OS for small programmable remote
> controls.  Maybe the development version requires 6MB, but my understanding
> is the runtime files are real small.  Can anyone confirm this or am I all
> wet?

My experience with Sun's Java during alpha was its runtime requires 70k+ of
memory. Now a Magic Cap runtime can be much smaller since a communicator
isn't a workstation and it certainly isn't Unix. Note this did not include
the java applet that you were running to begin with. Now 70k or even 100k
isn't all that large on a Unix workstation running 40-50 megabytes of
memory and with virtual memory to boot. Small is relative. :-)

Greg Satz

From: Mike Lombrozo <lombroma@MAIL.FIA.NET>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 21:04:28 -0700
Subject: Re: MCW UPGRADE

General Magic seems to be treating their customers very well.  I've gotten
excellent support from Steve Schramm and others.  Especially in response to
suggestions on the beta testing.  I'll definitely support their products
and give them feedback.

Mike

----------
From:   Shawn Jipp[SMTP:A5193644654@ATTPLS.NET]
Sent:   Saturday, July 20, 1996 10:48 PM
To:     Multiple recipients of list MAGICCAP
Subject:        MCW UPGRADE

I received a mailing from General Magic (Steve Schramm) addressed to
beta MCW users.

Since PLINK is going down they will upgrade us to the final release of
MCW for *free* when it comes out in the September/October time frame.

I thought this was very generous of them since we had only spent $15
for it in the first place.

///////Shawn Jipp
sjipp@ix.netcom.com




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`
end

From: Mike Lombrozo <lombroma@MAIL.FIA.NET>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 21:42:21 -0700
Subject: Re: PLS

Paul

I've been using the ML for about 9 months now without PLS and find it very
useful.  For communicating, I need to go with what most other people use
and that's internet mail, not PLS.  No question that PLS had some great
features, but AT&T never promoted it well and, IMHO, made a prudent
business decision to support the overwhelmingly popular internet standard.

I'm also looking forward to MCW because the interface is as close to
user-friendly as you can get.  It's a great PIM and the communications
interface is icing on the cake.  Most users I deal with consider usability
very important.  This means internet mail and faxing, not PLS.

I'm trying to see how useful the ML is in an intranet environment.  It'd be
nice access information on web pages and receive/send email without having
to lug a laptop around a plant site.  This hasn't worked too well because
of the slow speed of the processor, but several managers like the simple
interface and are considering buying them for their own use.  They get a
user friendly PIM and internet mail in a very small package.  The only
thing lacking in their eyes is the ability to receive faxes.

Mike

----------
From:   Paul[SMTP:A5043644623@ATTPLS.NET]
Sent:   Friday, July 19, 1996 6:21 PM
To:     Multiple recipients of list MAGICCAP
Subject:        PLS

What happens now to MCW. It was totally built around PLS. Is it
finished too. Will the new version be out before PLS closes its doors?
I have several Links, Envoys, SkyTel pagers and systems running MCW. We
invested a lot of money into the Magic Cap platform. Now all these
devices no longer can do what they did when we bought them. I am sure
PrestoMail is a great product. It seems that it will fill most people's
needs. I never understood Telescript or cared if the MarketSquare ever
appeared, but the features of PLS email is what sold me on the unit.
Just look at the box and manuals for these products. PLS was the
cornerstone. Now they decide they are out. I feel like they are asking
us to saw the units in half and mail half back. I know ATT is not a
charity, but it is more complicated than that. They are part of the GM
alliance. We will find alternate solutions. It just seems that GM is
getting off the hook a little too easy.

Paul_McHugh@attpls.net




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