From: Peter Merel <pete@ZIP.COM.AU>
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 23:15:04 +1000
Subject: ML-2000 for Internet Use - ideas and questions
Dear Magic Folks,
I've been fascinated with the idea of a net-oriented PDA for quite some
time, but until just recently I had no interest in the ML. I've been
using a zoomer with grafitti and the geoworks vt100 emulator while
hoping and praying that someone would deliver a product that actually
does what I want.
It now appears that Sony + GM are getting close to my ideal, and I'm
about to make some purchases, but I have some questions that perhaps
people here can answer.
What I'm thinking of purchasing is:
an ML-2000
two 2meg srams
presto-mail/links
grafitti
a terminal emulator
(+ all the freeware I can scavenge)
Questions:
- is anyone here running anything like this? Experiences?
- is there any way to get the presto stuff onto the link *without*
buying magic-xchange? I understand that magic-xchange is next
to useless as a backup utility, and once I have presto-links going
I won't need MX for downloading software ... so it seems idiotic to spend
$90 on a program I'd use exactly *ONCE*. Alternatively, is anyone here
selling magic xchange for something reasonable?
- I have heard a rumour that grafitti is actually built-in to the ML-2000 -
true or false?
- is cujoterm an adequate terminal emulator (vt100 is fine for me so long as
it is complete and bug-free) or should I be looking at the river-run
"magic connection"? Or doesn't "magic connection" run on the 2000?
- what future enhancements will the presto packages include? The absolute
top-priority, imho, should be a port of a JVM to magic cap - if that
were done there would suddenly be *tons* of freeware available for the ML -
GM would capture a *huge* market that is inaccessible to the newton - on
account of newton has inadequate graphic real-estate to make use of most
java applets.
- will the two type II PCMCIA slots on the ML-2000 accomodate a type III
PCMCIA device (ie. a disk drive ... presuming that someone wrote a driver
...)?
- alternatively, could the pcmcia slots on the ML-2000 accomodate a decently
large PCMCIA flash card ( ... presuming that someone wrote a driver)? I
mean, even a zoomer will go up to 40meg of flash, and zoomers have been
around since '92 ...
- alternatively again, could the PCMCIA port(s) drive some sort of SCSI
disk?
- if none of these, is *anyone* producing *any* new magic-cap PDAs any
time soon? Obvious items for the wishlist include a colour screen,
*much* more RAM, hardware support for java bytecodes, and probably a
total absence of anything to do with that daffy telescript idea :-)
I'm really excited about the possibilities of the ML-2000 ... and I
really don't think a newton can be made to handle the graphics-demands
of modern net users. Please, even if you think that I'm being totally
unrealistic, do followup to this article and stick in your 2-cents -
users, developers and manufacturers.
--
| mailto:pete@zip.com.au | pgp DB 3A A3 D8 A7 6A BB 25 EF 2E F4 A4 8F 29 BB E2 |
| http://www.zip.com.au/~pete/ | Give away what you don't need. |
From: Wayne Sanderson <A5023644635@ATTPLS.NET>
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 15:46:27 +0000
Subject: Re: ML2000 for Inter
>What I'm thinking of purchasing is:
>an ML-2000
>two 2meg srams
>presto-mail/links
>grafitti
>a terminal emulator
>(+ all the freeware I can scavenge)
>Questions:
>- is anyone here running anything like this? Experiences?
>- is there any way to get the presto stuff onto the link >*without*
> buying magic-xchange? I understand that magic-xchange >is next
> to useless as a backup utility, and once I have presto-links >going
> I won't need MX for downloading software ... so it seems >idiotic to
spend
> $90 on a program I'd use exactly *ONCE*. Alternatively, is >anyone
here
> selling magic xchange for something reasonable?
The $75.00+ update for Magic XChange is supposed to be able to access
and swap info with lots of PC apps. I have not tried it. The original
MXChange is available for around $35.00US if you shop- I got mine at
PCZone via telephone /mailorder.
>- I have heard a rumour that grafitti is actually built-in to >the
ML-2000 -
> true or false?
FALSE- The communicators can support HR, but GM did not bundle a
proprietary HR app with the OS a la Newton, instead leaving it open
for 3rd party developers to provide a choice for the individual owner-
there are several available.
>- is cujoterm an adequate terminal emulator (vt100 is fine >for me so
long as
> it is complete and bug-free) or should I be looking at the
>river-run
> "magic connection"? Or doesn't "magic connection" run on >the 2000?
Cujoterm is a demo app that while fun to play with provides nothing in
the way of utility for using the communicator for any reason other than
to connect. As far as I have found using Cujo,1) It provides only TTY
emulation, not VT100, and 2)all you get is the display in Cujo- no way
to save to memory, and without a local echo you don't even see what you
are typing. Buy a commercial Emulation package.
>- what future enhancements will the presto packages >include? The
absolute
> top-priority, imho, should be a port of a JVM to magic cap >- if
that
> were done there would suddenly be *tons* of freeware >available for
the ML -
> GM would capture a *huge* market that is inaccessible to >the newton
- on
> account of newton has inadequate graphic real-estate to >make use of
most
> java applets.
Java would be nice. GM is embracing other internet standards out of
practicality- adopting Java might be a step forward instead of
backward.
>- will the two type II PCMCIA slots on the ML-2000 >accomodate a type
III
> PCMCIA device (ie. a disk drive ... presuming that someone >wrote a
driver
> ...)?
>- alternatively, could the pcmcia slots on the ML-2000 >accomodate a
decently
> large PCMCIA flash card ( ... presuming that someone >wrote a
driver)? I
> mean, even a zoomer will go up to 40meg of flash, and >zoomers have
been
> around since '92 ...
>- alternatively again, could the PCMCIA port(s) drive some >sort of
SCSI
> disk?
Type 3 PCMCIA devices could be physically accomodated using the
Greystone adapters, but the only cards the MC devices currently
recognize are TTL SRAM cards, and certain PC card modems supported by
Sony's Wireless Modem Link bundle. Flash disks would also be nice, but
if it were easy to open up the platform to use them, I think it would
already have been done. There must be some hitch in the way the OS uses
add on memory or something. I haven't a clue.
>- if none of these, is *anyone* producing *any* new >magic-cap PDAs
any
> time soon? Obvious items for the wishlist include a colour >screen,
> *much* more RAM, hardware support for java bytecodes, >and probably
a
> total absence of anything to do with that daffy telescript >idea :-)
Sounds good to me. I'm saving my pennies now for the next generation
communicator, from whichever manufacturer comes forth with the best
one. Telescript is alive and well- it's not daffy. Having enjoyed the
use of a Telescript based communication service for some time now, an
ISP will be a step down. Many people think that if a new
product/service/concept did not come from the robber baron's castle in
Washington State( what's their name again? Micro- something or other)
then it's either stupid, unprofitable, a step in the wrong direction,
or the market is not ready for it yet(ie: Microsoft is not ready with a
product to cash in on it yet) And this is exactly what the Baron WANTS
us all to think when we are considering technology investments and/or
product purchases.
>I'm really excited about the possibilities of the ML-2000 ... >and I
really don't think a newton can be made to handle >the graphics-demands
of modern net users. Please, even if >you think that I'm being totally
unrealistic, do followup to >this article and stick in your 2-cents -
users, developers >and manufacturers.
If there were a Magic Cap communicator for sale today that had
undergone all of the revamping and augmentation that the Newton has
undergone since it's introduction, the Newton would be in big trouble
and all of the wait and sees out there on the fence would be buying it-
and maybe they would have been using PersonaLink.
From: Greg Satz <satz@CISCO.COM>
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 10:37:58 -0700
Subject: Re: ML-2000 for Internet Use - ideas and questions
Poster: Peter Merel
> - is anyone here running anything like this? Experiences?
You really need a pic-2000 to do any sort of wbe surfing. My communicator
only contains a 2400 baud modem though it does have two slots. I consider
this far too slow to do any sort of useful web surfing. It could be useful
for some text-only information retrieval if I was sufficiently
motivated. The smaller screen is a limitation too. I am probably just
spoiled though. There is a text-only web retrieval service via email for
the Magic Cap communicatos called WebMail. The software is freeware and the
service is shareware.
> - is there any way to get the presto stuff onto the link *without*
> buying magic-xchange? I understand that magic-xchange is next
> to useless as a backup utility, and once I have presto-links going
> I won't need MX for downloading software ... so it seems idiotic to spend
> $90 on a program I'd use exactly *ONCE*. Alternatively, is anyone here
> selling magic xchange for something reasonable?
I highly recommend getting Magic Xchange. Especially if you will be running
any sort of beta software or shareware. I have lost of (SRAM) PC card 3-4
times. Without MX you will have less fun then I did putting yourself back
together. Bad things do happen. You want a good backup system in place
when, not if, it does.
> - I have heard a rumour that grafitti is actually built-in to the ML-2000 -
> true or false?
QuickPrint is in the Envoy's roms as of the 1.5 upgrade and the new Envoy
150.
> - what future enhancements will the presto packages include? The absolute
> top-priority, imho, should be a port of a JVM to magic cap - if that
> were done there would suddenly be *tons* of freeware available for the ML -
> GM would capture a *huge* market that is inaccessible to the newton - on
> account of newton has inadequate graphic real-estate to make use of most
> java applets.
I think a Java VM would be a significant challenge due to resource
limitations.
> - will the two type II PCMCIA slots on the ML-2000 accomodate a type III
> PCMCIA device (ie. a disk drive ... presuming that someone wrote a driver
> ...)?
That is a good question. I don't think so as I have never seen this
documented in the pic-2000 specs. A visit to the Sony ML web page should
verify it.
> - alternatively, could the pcmcia slots on the ML-2000 accomodate a decently
> large PCMCIA flash card ( ... presuming that someone wrote a driver)? I
> mean, even a zoomer will go up to 40meg of flash, and zoomers have been
> around since '92 ...
Flash doesn't work on the available communicators as memory. I believe
flash can work but so far no one has chosen to support it. It forces your
communicator to use main memory for changes, however. Maybe Magic Cap 1.5
will noe use the 'new items go here' for changes?
> - alternatively again, could the PCMCIA port(s) drive some sort of SCSI
> disk?
You would need a magic bus to scsi connector. There aren't any of these
devices to my knowledge.
> - if none of these, is *anyone* producing *any* new magic-cap PDAs any
> time soon? Obvious items for the wishlist include a colour screen,
> *much* more RAM, hardware support for java bytecodes, and probably a
> total absence of anything to do with that daffy telescript idea :-)
The problem with all these marvelous upgrades from the portable computer
world is cost. Would you be willing to pay $2000+ for a communicator? For
this price you can get a nice portable computer with quite a number of
these features.
Telescript is being unbundled from the future Magic Cap software. This lets
the communicator manufacturer determine whether to include Telescript in
their device or not.
Greg Satz
From: Sprattling@AOL.COM
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 14:05:47 -0400
Subject: Untitled
[This message may have contained graphics created by a Magic Cap device on
America Online.]
Dear MAGICCAP List,
David Devany, Jr. (daviddjr@shadow.net) wrote:
>Regarding the headset. You don't need the special one
>that is needed for the PIC1000 since the 2000 has a built
>in speakerphone.
Actually, I think I have a problem: I want a telephone headset (that is, a
single earpiece and a mic) to plug into
the 2000; it appears, though, the the PICP-T1 telephone headset is designed
for use with only the PIC-1000, and the PIC-2000 allows only the use of its
internal mic with a set of stereo phones or ear buds. Shouting into a
speakerphone mic (and a not-very-good one, at that) is not my idea of how to
conduct a more private conversation. Will the PIC-1000 headset work with
the 2000? Is there a way to wire an interface between the PIC-2000 and a
bona fide telephone headset?
Thanks in advance,
Rod
From: David Szego <dszego@FREENET.TORONTO.ON.CA>
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 18:11:56 -0400
Subject: Re: MCW UPGRADE
On Sun, 21 Jul 1996, Shawn Jipp wrote:
> I received a mailing from General Magic (Steve Schramm) addressed to
> beta MCW users.
>
> Since PLINK is going down they will upgrade us to the final release of
> MCW for *free* when it comes out in the September/October time frame.
Does this apply to the people who have a copy of MCW from the website,
back when it was being distributed there?
I'd love to know how to get a copy of the release...
David Szego
(dszego@torfree.net)
From: David Szego <dszego@FREENET.TORONTO.ON.CA>
Date: Sun, 21 Jul 1996 18:29:38 -0400
Subject: Re: ML-2000 for Internet Use - ideas and questions
On Sun, 21 Jul 1996, Peter Merel wrote:
> What I'm thinking of purchasing is:
>
> an ML-2000
> two 2meg srams
> presto-mail/links
> grafitti
> a terminal emulator
> (+ all the freeware I can scavenge)
That's almost exactly what I'm running... I've only got one 1mb card
tho... I can't find sram in Canada for love or money! It does the trick
fine, and with PrestoLinks! retail edition the web is a breeze... I sit
in bed with the lights out, turn on the backlighting, and play!
> - is there any way to get the presto stuff onto the link *without*
> buying magic-xchange? I understand that magic-xchange is next
> to useless as a backup utility, and once I have presto-links going
> I won't need MX for downloading software ... so it seems idiotic to spend
> $90 on a program I'd use exactly *ONCE*. Alternatively, is anyone here
> selling magic xchange for something reasonable?
Magic XChange is a mediocre product for getting things to and from the
ML... it's ok for to actually, but don't even bother getting things off
the ML with it. The support staff I've dealt with are useless, it's way
too expensive, and it has a market hold by being the only product which
does this task. I would completely advocate pirating this software just
because it's soooo damn expensive and the company is a bunch of words I
can't repeat in public. The only problem is, if you pirate the software,
you still need the cable. Guess what the only way to get the cable is?
That's right... Buy their damn software!
> - I have heard a rumour that grafitti is actually built-in to the ML-2000 -
> true or false?
False, but it should be. I hope we see it bundled with the ML-2500 (or
whatever the next one is)
> - is cujoterm an adequate terminal emulator (vt100 is fine for me so long as
> it is complete and bug-free) or should I be looking at the river-run
> "magic connection"? Or doesn't "magic connection" run on the 2000?
River Run is a pooch as far as performance goes... Trying to use an IRC
or shell session or anything on my ISP is ridiculously slow... Surprising
because I thought a 20MHz processor could support a simple 14.4
connection when all it has to do is dump text to the screen and read the
keyboard buffer.
Cujo I haven't tried, but if there is a demo or if it's shareware, I'd be
more than happy to replace River Run!
> - what future enhancements will the presto packages include? The absolute
> top-priority, imho, should be a port of a JVM to magic cap - if that
> were done there would suddenly be *tons* of freeware available for the ML -
> GM would capture a *huge* market that is inaccessible to the newton - on
> account of newton has inadequate graphic real-estate to make use of most
> java applets.
It would make sense for the next Magic Cap platform to have a JVM built
in, as well as a more tightly integrated broswer/mail package... Presto's
line of software would be *great* bundled in ROM!!! However, judging by
how slow the ML is just to tap and play a song, it would be silly to put
a JVM on it without moving to a totally different processor. THe Dragon
at 20MHZ is way too underpowered... or the OS is too bulky, I'm not sure!
(No flames please, just making an observation!)
> - will the two type II PCMCIA slots on the ML-2000 accomodate a type III
> PCMCIA device (ie. a disk drive ... presuming that someone wrote a driver
> ...)?
No. (!)
> - alternatively, could the pcmcia slots on the ML-2000 accomodate a decently
> large PCMCIA flash card ( ... presuming that someone wrote a driver)? I
> mean, even a zoomer will go up to 40meg of flash, and zoomers have been
> around since '92 ...
No. Flash is *not* supported at all. Never will be from what I've heard
from GM. However, I can't see why you'd need more than a 16Mb SRAM
card... Even that seems like total overkill! (so far, anyways!)
> - alternatively again, could the PCMCIA port(s) drive some sort of SCSI
> disk?
No. Not in your wildest dreams. Doesn't make sense since the ML's battery
hates having sound turned on, or having the modem used as it is!!!
> - if none of these, is *anyone* producing *any* new magic-cap PDAs any
> time soon? Obvious items for the wishlist include a colour screen,
> *much* more RAM, hardware support for java bytecodes, and probably a
> total absence of anything to do with that daffy telescript idea :-)
I have heard that colour is actually built into the rom of the Magic
Link/Envoy... no one seems to have a low-power screen tho... Funny,
laptops and notebooks seem to have no problem! (Sony... time to play
Catch-Up with the rest of the world!)
> I'm really excited about the possibilities of the ML-2000 ... and I
> really don't think a newton can be made to handle the graphics-demands
> of modern net users. Please, even if you think that I'm being totally
> unrealistic, do followup to this article and stick in your 2-cents -
> users, developers and manufacturers.
I've played with a Newton 130 using some web browser whose name I can't
remember... It's *nice*. VERY nice. Problem is, it's not as connected in
other regards as the ML is... not nearly as integrated, no internal
modem, bla bla bla. But, you can put in a 28.8 pcmcia modem and a
terminal session or web browser flys far faster than a magic cap os would
be able to handle... Might be because of the 130's ARM processor... Nice
chip.
I'd still say tho that the ML-2000 is the worlds *first* *REAL* net
computer. Oracle has it's prototypes, but I'm doing everything they say
they will right *now*, and in the palm of my hand to boot! Except Java...
but we discussed that.
Who knows what the future will hold for GM/Magic Cap/PDA's?
David Szego
(dszego@torfree.net)
From: Robert Joy <A5043644610@ATTPLS.NET>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 01:15:29 +0000
Subject: PLS
I would really like to echo Paul McHughs post about PLS.
Thanks Paul you the nail on the head.
Bob Joy
Robert_Joy@attpls.net
-------------------
Paul said;
What happens now to MCW. It was totally built around PLS. Is it
finished too. Will the new version be out before PLS closes its doors?
I have several Links, Envoys, SkyTe l pagers and systems running MCW.
We
invested a lot of money into the Magic Cap platform. Now all these
devices no longer can do what they did when we bought them. I am sure
PrestoMail is a great product. It seems that it will fill most people's
needs. I never understood Telescript or cared if the MarketSquare ever
appeared, but the features of PLS email is what sold me on the unit.
Just look at the box and manuals for these products. PLS was the
cornerstone. Now they decide they are out. I feel like they are asking
us to saw the units in half and mail half back. I know ATT is not a
charity, but it is more complicated than that. They are part of the GM
alliance. We will find alternate solutions. It just seems that GM is
getting off the hook a little too easy.
From: Jon Whitney <A5613644656@ATTPLS.NET>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 03:01:14 +0000
Subject: Re: ML-2000 for Internet Use - ideas and questions
Damn canadians in bed with their ML's...j/k :)
someone had to say it, you left yourself wide open,...eh?
From: Scott Doniger <A5603644614@ATTPLS.NET>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 03:55:15 +0000
Subject: ISP/Presto/Chgo HLP
Dear Comp.os.magic-cap others,
Sorry to start a new thread, but I am in desperate need of help in
finding an ISP in Chgoland that will work with Presto!
Even a nationwide one would be ok....
Thx
Scott
--------------------------
From the desk of Scott Doniger...
From: Wayne Sanderson <A5023644635@ATTPLS.NET>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 04:30:27 +0000
Subject: Re: MCW UPGRADE
I read here that Mr. Schramm has contacted persons using MCW to arrange
a free upgrade to the full commercial package. Are these the beta
testers, or those who got and used the pre-release version? I am using
pre-release, and I paid for the disks, the manual and the
shipping-about $35.00 approx. I got no such message.
From: "David Devaney, Jr." <daviddjr@SHADOW.NET>
Date: Mon, 22 Jul 1996 00:49:36 -0400
Subject: Re: SRAM Card
This message contains mail encoded for MagicCap
--magicmail
Hi Paul,
paulk writes:
> Yes I do. If you try turning it off, let me know if it
> fixes it. What is the command anyway? When I try to
> decode magicmail with uudecode .98. I get "the
> uuencoded data contains corrupted information". I have
> tried this on 3 different encoded msg's.
I turned off the Dual header option and set it back to Full Internet headers.
This did work. I received a message from the list today and it was decoded by
P!Mail properly. I don't remember the exact command as I have the info on my PC and I use the Web Page for my maintenance: http://www.netspace.org/cgi-bin/lwgate/MAGICCAP.
David Devaney, Jr.
daviddjr@shadow.net
--magicmail
Content-Type: application/prestomail
begin 000 PrestoMail
M`0!CQSX/4&5R2!0
M(4UA:6P@<')O<&5R;'DN("!)(&1O;B=T(')E;65M8F5R('1H92!E>&%C="!C
M;VUM86YD(&%S($D@:&%V92!T:&4@:6YF;R!O;B!M>2!00R!A;F0@22!U2!M86EN=&5N86YC93H@(&AT='`Z+R]W=W2P@2G(N"F1A=FED9&IR0'-H861O=RYN970*#)$!38`,D0&;``%B
M`77'/A!%>'1E;G-I;VY%;&5M96YT`@%UPCX*4F5P;'E3=&%M<`D``<3-JV4,
MLH<`P5\*$A(6"```BW;__W#*%@@``````````!8$4`@2`,3-JSX,LH<'@`7X
M#+$````2$@$2`````1(``Q)UQSX34&QA=&9O
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